Kourosh Ziabari: An eminent American journalist believes that the publication of the US Senate’s report on CIA’s “detention and interrogation program” indicates a growing rift between the legislative body and intelligence apparatus of the United States.
Reese Erlich, who is the author of several books about the Middle East and US foreign policy, says that the torture methods used against the terrorism suspects following the launching of the War on Terror by President George W. Bush were endorsed and approved by the high-ranking White House and CIA officials and they were certainly aware of the extent and severity of the torture program used in the US’s overseas jails.
The winner of the Society of Professional Journalists’ best radio explanatory journalism award in 2012 and the co-recipient of the 2006 Peabody Award, for his public radio documentary about the history of the Asians in the United States, Reese Erlich has just published his recent book entitled “Inside Syria: The Backstory of Their Civil War and What the World Can Expect.” Of his other major works is “Dateline Havana: The Real Story of U.S. Policy and the Future of Cuba.”
“The CIA and the Obama administration refused to cooperate with the Senate investigators, and so the report relied exclusively on written documents. I’m sure that if the CIA officials had testified under oath, far more damaging information would have been revealed,” said Erlich in an exclusive interview.
“The writing of the report reflected a serious split between the Senate and CIA. The CIA broke into the computer files of the Senate investigators and later threatened to bring criminal charges against them. That’s a pretty big rift,” he noted.
Reese Erlich has been featured as a writer and host on the Canadian Broadcasting Corp. Radio, CBS Radio and National Public Radio. His articles and commentaries have appeared on several print and online publications, including The Progressive, The Nation, San Francisco Magazine and California Monthly, National Post and Antiwar.com.
Q: As the recent Senate report on the CIA’s torture program has documented, the prisoners of the US overseas jails were subject to brutal methods of torture for several years. Such kinds of physical punishment certainly leave severe and irreversible mental damages on the subjects. What do you think about the impacts of such punishments on the psyches of the prisoners? Is it really possible to compensate for the mental pains the victims have gone through?
A: As a group, prisoners are certainly suffering severe mental and emotional trauma. Most will suffer some sort of PTSD, perhaps for the rest of their lives. There is no amount of money that can compensate the victims, although if their cases were ever heard in an international court, they would certainly be entitled to monetary damages.
Q: The Senate Intelligence Committee’s report on CIA’s torture program underlined a massive bureaucratic dysfunction in the agency, showing that it failed to assign qualified and seasoned interrogators to the prisoners, and also fell short of managing and administering the “detention and interrogation program” reasonably. Senate report affirmed that CIA’s oversight “was deeply flawed throughout the program’s duration.” What’s your viewpoint on that?
A: When a government agency anywhere in the world engages in illegal activity, the leaders will inevitably have managerial lapses. Several Middle East governments, for example, regularly illegally detain and torture political opponents. The process of denying and covering up such actions inevitably lead to administrative problems and corruption. The CIA is no different. The CIA received orders from the Bush Administration to use torture in an effort to “combat terrorism.” So interrogators were violating international and US law. The CIA and US military have a long history of using torture going back to the US occupation of the Philippines in 1898 and to Vietnam in the 1960s. The authorities went beyond the pale because they figured they would never be caught.
Q: It was revealed in a 2002 memo that Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld had authorized the use of some interrogation techniques in the Guantanamo prison, which amounted to torture in terms of severity and harshness. Now, Rumsfeld and other officials at the Bush administration who were complicit in the torture program are mostly retired. Is it possible to indict them and hold them responsible for their wrongdoings?
A: Under US law, even sitting officials – except the president and federal judges – can be indicted and tried. Certainly, the top Bush officials are guilty of horrific crimes, but there is zero chance they will face trial in US courts. Some other countries such as Spain assert jurisdiction in cases of torture and other crimes against humanity. While I’m not expecting such indictments, it would be interesting to see Bush and Rumsfeld try to defend their actions in a Spanish court.
Q: It’s reported that CIA operated 25 dungeons across Europe; however, the names of the countries were redacted from the Senate’s 500-page torture report due to the pressures by the White House. These countries cooperated with the United States in its illegal rendition program and also facilitated the torturing of the war prisoners in black sites. Why do you think so many governments cooperated with the United States in its horrific detention, rendition and interrogation program?
A: The US exerted a lot of political pressure on Poland and other countries, while offering bribes in the form of economic incentives. The US didn’t spell out the details of what would happen in these black sites; and the host countries didn’t inquire very strongly.
Q: Some political analysts have argued that one of the shortcomings of the Senate’s report is that it doesn’t include interviews with the CIA personnel and the operatives involved in the torture and interrogation program. What do you think about that? Was it a decision made by the CIA authorities not to allow their staff to give information to the Senate Intelligence Committee?
A: The CIA and the Obama administration refused to cooperate with the Senate investigators, and so the report relied exclusively on written documents. I’m sure that if the CIA officials had testified under oath, far more damaging information would have been revealed. The writing of the report reflected a serious split between the Senate and CIA. The CIA broke into the computer files of the Senate investigators and later threatened to bring criminal charges against them. That’s a pretty big rift!
Q: The intensive detention and interrogation program of CIA is a legacy of the Bush administration and his project of the Global War on Terror. So, do you also consider President Obama to be responsible for the prolongation of the program? Did he fail in prohibiting torture at the Guantanamo bay detention facility and other black sites operated by the CIA?
A: Officially, the Obama administration stopped the torture program. But I have my doubts given the long history of abuse and torture carried out in secret by various US agencies. Abuse continues at Guantanamo, for example, using brutal force feeding methods against hunger strikers.
Q: It was on the Senate’s torture report that the detention and interrogation program cost over $300 million in non-personnel expenses, and this is a budget which even some CIA officers couldn’t believe was allocated to the controversial program. Does this mean that the CIA directors and other high-ranking authorities were aware of what was going to be done to the terrorism suspects held in the US overseas prisons? What’s your opinion on the outsourcing parts of the torture program to some outside intelligence contractors?
A: The torture program was known to the highest levels of the US government. It’s public record that Bush, Condoleezza Rice, [Donald] Rumsfeld and others were present when various torture techniques were discussed and Okayed. Water-boarding was permitted, for example, by redefining torture to require massive organ failure. The heads of the CIA were well aware of the torture program. I think the Bush administration used contractors, in part, because if anything went wrong, they could blame outsiders and protect the CIA leadership. The Obama administration, despite its liberal trappings, has continued much of the Bush era repression.